Re: Answers from Dan...

In article <3ud22o$bo8@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, Brett <Brett6@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >dynamicd@ix.netcom.com (Dan Sigal ) wrote:
>
>>>I hesitate to impose upon the busy schedule of one so
>>>important. But as you seem to have an inside track to Ms.
>>>Kobrin, perhaps you could clarify whether the following
>>>material is copywrited or merely a pathetic attempt to
>>>disparage the name of RLH.
>>>
>
>>Never spoke to her. But if you have any doubt about the
>>naterials and copyrights, just write to her directly.
>>I am sure Dennis E has her address. I don't.
>
>She's a CA attorney. I'm a CA attorney. If we want to find
>each other, it's not so difficult. I sent the post to you to
>test your implied threat that any of us who dare to quote a
>few lines of Elron's ridiculous rubbish face dire
>consequences. I'm here. Come and get me.
>
>May you dream of ancient Gorillas. Regards, Brett.
>

Try the OT VII stuff. She seems to think she is on a roll on this stuff.

You saw her letter to me.

# Seems to think mimeographing this stuff and handing it out to OT VIIs does not constitute publishing.

# Pretends that the amendment to copyright statutes declaring unpubliushed works subjsect to fair use does not exist.

# Thinks that somebody who never signed a screcy agreement with CoS is beholden to them as regards trade secrets.

# Ignores pointedly fact that teh OT I - VII materials have been in the public view in a Florida courthose for sometime and have widely been posted on the internet, thus losing all status as trade secrets.

I am sure the guff about computer hard disks vs fair use is just that, guff, but I am waiting to see this chewed over on the net.

But much is cut adn dried. But it may take a lawsuit to get that settled. Their Big Threat.

Perhaps a declatory judgement is the way to go? Take this crap to a federal judge and get this cleared up for once and for all? Act instead of react to a silly barratous lawsuit? With all it's harrasments, waste of time and money and aggravation.

I have cleared my hard disk of all stuff I might be sued for.

(Clams attack with writ of seizure on bum claim but get you for other shit found in your possession in seizure of hard disk contents.)

I am thinking about this hard.

If one has to play a game, why play THEIRS?

Anybody else think of any other good games to play with the clams in a court room?

Pope Charles SubGenius Pope Of Houston Slack!

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X-Provider: NeoSoft, Inc.: Internet Service Provider (713) 968-5800 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: To: wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM

Dear Mr. Barwell:

Your response to me is the most obvious indication that you know nothing about: (1) copyright law, (2) trade secret law, (3) the Temporary Restraining Order in place against Dennis Erlich, or (4) the status of my clients' materials.

In the case against Dennis Erlich, Judge Whyte issued a Temporary Restraining Order prohibiting him from engaging in certain acts related to Church materials. The order states in part:

Note she leaves out the part where Judge Whyte allows fair use comentary.

Defendant Dennis Erlich and his agents, servants, and employees, and all persons acting or purporting to : act under his authority, direction or control, and all persons acting in concert or in participation with any of them who receive notice of this Order, shall be and are restrained and enjoined pending further court order:

I was never under command of Erlich, nor did I recieve notice from de judge of this TRO.

1. From all unauthorized reproduction, transmission, and publication of any of the works of L. Ron Hubbard that are protected under the Copyright Act of 1976, as codified in its amended form at 17 U.S.C. Sec. 101 et seq. Such works are found, for the purpose of this order only, to be those works identified in exhibit A to the complaint.

I ain'tdone this either, simply reposted a post that used a 6 line PORTION of such a use under the fair use provisions. Word check works and portion.

************************************************************************

a. Unauthorized reproduction, transmission, or publication includes placement of a copyrighted work into a computer's hard drive or other storage device; "browsing" the text of a copyrighted work resident on another computer through on-screen examination; scanning a copyrighted work into a : digital file; "uploading" a digital file containing a copyrighted work from the computer to a bulletin board system or other server; "downloading" a digitized file containing a copyrighted work from a bulletin board system or other server to the computer; and "quoting" a copyrighted work that is cited in an on-line message in sending, responding to or forwarding that message. ******************************************************************* b. Nothing in *this* paragraph shall be construed to prohibit fair use of such works, as set forth in 17 U.S.C. Sec. 107 and interpreted by applicable case law. . . . ****************************************************************

The church is choosing to ignore fair use. As far as Helena Kobrin is concerned, my repost of a six line fragment is not fair use as the cult does not recognize fair use. They pick and choose which parts of the law they like and ignore the rest.

Maybe a declarative judement is needed here to clear this MU up for Kobrin and Moxon and crew.

For once and for all and too put an end to this approach of these barratous, frivolus clams. ******************************************************************

2. From disclosing, displaying, or reproducing, or causing to be disclosed, displayed or reproduced, any of L. Ron Hubbard's unpublished, confidential copyrighted works which are found to be, for the : purposes of this order only, those works identified in exhibit B to the complaint.

Paragraph 1.b, relating to copyrights, is the only paragraph of the order which permits any sort of fair use. The fair use defense does exist, but no court has ever found it applicable in a case where unpublished materials were in question.

Of course she utterly ignores, purposefully, the fact that the 94th congress purposefully placed unpublished materials well within the purview of fair use provisions. And of couse the OT materials were privately published via mimeograph as course packets for OT courses.

My little 6 line snippet is fair use. She ignores that again.

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Paragraph 2 on trade secrets does not permit fair use at all, because there is no fair use defense to trade secret misappropriation. The excerpts from OT VII materials which you posted are trade secrets and there is *no* fair use defense to their disclosure. The fact that you never signed an agreement with respect to the OT materials is immaterial. You are on notice that they are regarded as trade secrets, and case law from several jurisdictions holds that an individual who is on notice is liable for trade secret misappropriation.

A declarative judgement that these materials are sitting in open view in a Florida courthouse and well spread about on the internet would end this pretence for once and for all and remove any legal threats of tort from the clams as far as trade secrets is concerned.

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The state of Texas has civil and criminal liability for trade secret misappropriation. Prosecutions have been brought and people have been convicted for in Texas for trade secret misappropriations.

Of course they aren't trade secrets for many reasons, despite purposeful pretensions of Kobrin and clams.

I never signed any secrecy agreement with this cult as far as OT materials are concerned. The day it hit the net it ceased to be trade secret. For it was secret no longer. Wouldn't it be nice to have a declarative judgement in court remove all doubt from Kobin and crew's mind?

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: I can only warn you of the consequences for continuing to make infringing postings. The law does not require that I give you any warning at all, but I have done so in an attempt to amicably resolve this matter. Whether you heed my warning is up to you.

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The threats made in your message to me have been noted for the record.

Sincerely, Helena Kobrin

I can only warn the cult about the consequences of ignoring facts like the existance of fair use and the status of trade secrets of OT materials that are in the public view and not in any way or form, trade secrets.

Keep pushing, Kobrin.

And remember the law of unintended consequences. Declarative judgement. Hmmmmm.

Children of the electrons, prepare to fight for your freedoms.

Pope Charles SubGenius Pope Of Houston Slack!