Re: Scientology and Kids

In article <noodleD9IAvB.8q9@netcom.com>, Rick Sherwood <noodle@netcom.com> wrote: >Steve (stevea@castlsys.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>Steve (stevea@castlsys.demon.co.uk) wrote: >: declared, sent to Ethics, or RPF?
>: declared, sent to Ethics, or RPF? >
> > Well, Grand Inquisitor, your question strikes me as
> Well, Grand Inquisitor, your question strikes me as >incredibly bigoted! Woody
>incredibly bigoted! Woody Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@jade.mv.net> replied:

>>It is, rather. However, the better answer would be to heave a tired sigh
>>It is, rather. However, the better answer would be to heave a tired sigh >>and answer the question patiently.
>>and answer the question patiently. >When children are brought up in $cientology, or educated in
>When children are brought up in $cientology, or educated in >$cientology-run establishments, is there a lower age limit beyond
>$cientology-run establishments, is there a lower age limit beyond >which $cientology techniques are not applied.
>which $cientology techniques are not applied. >>It depends on the technique. I would imagine that a touch-assist could
>>It depends on the technique. I would imagine that a touch-assist could >>be done at just about any age, for instance.
>>be done at just about any age, for instance. Surely, Elizabeth, having been reared in the cult, you were exposed to "Child Scientology[tm]"? Hubbard wrote an entire book on the subject, called "Child Dianetics." In "The Volunteer Minister's Handbook" (1976 ed.), Hubbard devotes 19 pages to the subject. He states: "Child Scientology could very well be, in terms of practice, the most important single field of endeavor in the religion." He advocates that volunteer ministers introduce the practice into schools, scout troops, orphan asylums, YMCAs, and Sunday schools, although he warns that "it might be a matter for caution on the part of the group auditor not to discuss the process with the parents...." The process itself involves having children "mock up" mental images and then manipulate them, all according to Hubbard-produced instructions. No doubt this is what led to the dismissal of the headmistress (Sheila Hoad) of an East Grinstead preparatory school in 1960. As described by Roy Wallis in "The Road to Total Freedom," (p. 191): "The exercise that led to the press outburst involved the pupils following the directions: Close your eyes. Concentrate. Now imagine you are dying. Imagine you are dead. Now you have turned to dust and ashes. Now imagine you are putting the ashes back inside yourself. The press reports referred histrionically to those periods as 'Death Lessons.'"

>For example: what is the minimum age at which auditing is allowable?
>For example: what is the minimum age at which auditing is allowable? >>You need verbal skills. I'd suggest that five is a pretty likely
>>You need verbal skills. I'd suggest that five is a pretty likely >>minimum. I was doing some book-one auditing (as my mother calls it)
>>minimum. I was doing some book-one auditing (as my mother calls it) >>while I was pre-teen. Very interesting.
>>while I was pre-teen. Very interesting. In the libel action the CoS took (and lost) against Geoffrey Johnson-Smith, MP for East Grinstead, a familiar name appeared on the witness list. As reported in the 30 Jan 1971 issue of the British Medical Journal (p. 297), David Gaiman was the "Church's" <spit> first witness. I quote: "Mr. Gaiman was cross-examined at considerable length by Sir Elwyn Jones, counsel for the defendant, but he denied the suggestion put to him by Sir Elwyn that children (in some cases as young as 5) were indoctrinated with the teachings of the cult or that hypnosis was used on them. He agreed, however, that during the process of auditing children sometimes went into a deep sleep for between eight minutes and eight hours."

So, there is both group auditing of children by volunteer ministers and individual auditing of what Hubbard called "the special problems of individual children" by "professional auditors" (VMH, p. 387). >What about sec checks or gang bangs?
>What about sec checks or gang bangs? >>I believe that those are only manifested on staff.
>>I believe that those are only manifested on staff. <she said drily> >>I don't know when a kid can legally be on staff.
>>I don't know when a kid can legally be on staff. Ask Dennis Erlich about witnessing his teenage daughter signing her billion-year Sea Org contract. Proud Papa!

>And if a child is uncooperative or unwilling to participate in
>And if a child is uncooperative or unwilling to participate in >$cientology practices, are they allowed to opt out?
>$cientology practices, are they allowed to opt out? >>I would hope so. Since part of Scientology, as *I* was brought up, is the
>>I would hope so. Since part of Scientology, as *I* was brought up, is the >>ability to be self-determined, I would sincerely hope that the parents
>>ability to be self-determined, I would sincerely hope that the parents >>and adults around remembered this little detailed and allowed the child
>>and adults around remembered this little detailed and allowed the child >>to be as self-determined as possible where it did not adversely affect
>>to be as self-determined as possible where it did not adversely affect >>his/her survival.
>>his/her survival. [snip] > Can a child be declared, sent to Ethics, or RPF?
> Can a child be declared, sent to Ethics, or RPF? >>If someone really *wanted* to, maybe declared, though that would be kind
>>If someone really *wanted* to, maybe declared, though that would be kind >>of... extreme. I wouldn't imagine that anything else could be required of
>>of... extreme. I wouldn't imagine that anything else could be required of >>someone unless they were on staff. See minimum-age, above.
>>someone unless they were on staff. See minimum-age, above. Surely, Elizabeth, you're familiar with the CMO, which led to the eventual takeover of your "church" <spit> by David Miscavige et al? To quote from John Atack's "A Piece of Blue Sky": "In the late 1960s aboard the Apollo, Hubbard used the children of Scientologists to run messages. He set them up with their own 'Org,' and their own child Ethics Officer, one of whom was only eight years old. Eventually they became known as the Commorodre's Messenger Org, or CMO. They grew up around Hubbard, usually separated from their parents." >>I sure as stars wasn't sent to some twisted "family Ethics" sessions
>>I sure as stars wasn't sent to some twisted "family Ethics" sessions >>or anything at *any* point in my existance. Not even when I spilled
>>or anything at *any* point in my existance. Not even when I spilled >>grape-juice on a computer disk. :-( Nor was corporal punishment applied
>>grape-juice on a computer disk. :-( Nor was corporal punishment applied >>to me more than about twice -- and one of those was by a "child dentist"
>>to me more than about twice -- and one of those was by a "child dentist" >>who wouldn't let my mom come in when I had to have a couple of cavities
>>who wouldn't let my mom come in when I had to have a couple of cavities >>filled! The premise on that one is that it is undesireable to cause
>>filled! The premise on that one is that it is undesireable to cause >>engrams in very young children by hitting them. In my case, at least,
>>engrams in very young children by hitting them. In my case, at least, >>it seems to have worked just fine.
>>it seems to have worked just fine. Elizabeth, perhaps if you took a tour of some web sites and read a few sworn depositions of these "messengers," you'd realize how ludicrous your comments here appear. The sheer number of statements about the abuses of minors in the upper echelons of your "church" <spit> has got to indicate to a rational human being that such abuses did, indeed, regularly take place. We're not talking about punishment for spilling juice here. Of course, you can always take the cowardly way out by claiming you're "too busy" to read these. There are always those in society who choose to ignore the evil which surrounds them as long as it doesn't affect them personally. I'd like to think that you have more personal integrity than that. Do you? Diane Richardson ao579@yfn.ysu.edu