Re: Harlan Ellison on $cientology

henry (anon2c9e@nyx10.cs.du.edu) wrote:

: hubbard published the initial draft of dianetics in analog : science fiction magazine, which generated a flash-in-the-pan : stir and considerable interest in the idea of 'clears' and : numerous amateur dianetics groups, but very little real : cash for hubbard, who was reduced in the early fifties to : writing pathetic letters pleading for money in increasingly : abject terms to the mailing list he retained from a failing : organization when dianetics failed to live up to the hype.

There is an unfortunate tendency in Usenet groups for people to state, in a tone of total authority, opinions as facts--even though these opinions are little more than hearsay and are never checked with easily available reference works (yes, I mean BOOKS, not web sites).

In fact, Analog magazine did not exist when the first article about Dianetics was published; the title of the magazine was then Astounding Science Fiction. I believe the concept of a "clear" was not mentioned in the initial statements about Dianetics. I am not sure who you think Hubbard wrote to, asking for cash; could we have some names? According to A. E. van Vogt, who managed an early Dianetics auditing center (and whom I have spoken to on this subject), there was a problem maintaining momentum in some centers in the early days, but others (including van Vogt's) did prosper, and according to van Vogt, Hubbard did well.

: dianetics was completely washed-up as a science in the early fifties, : so hubbard started adding semi-religious trappings to it : after copping the idea of the e-meter from volney mathiesen, : but scientology was not fully and legally a religion until : 1971.

According to various books on this subject, which I believe are better researched than your post, Scientology was started as a religion in order to attain tax-exempt status; and again, according to the sources that I have read, Hubbard once said that this had been his greatest mistake, since it led to endless trouble with the IRS. Your suggestion that Dianetics "was completely washed up" needs to be substantiated; I doubt it is entirely true. Also, as I recall, the E-meter preceded Scientology, though I may be wrong about that.

: despite the opening paragraph, which was added by a third : party, harlan didn't say in the interview that : he was there the night hubbard invented dianetics, but the : night that he invented scientology.

The Ellison statement, quoted here, clearly refers to a time before Hubbard established Dianetics. Therefore it can have nothing to do with Scientology, which came many years later.

: a mistakes harlan made was to assume that : hubbard had invented 'engrams,' which indeed was another : of his plagiarisms.

What do you mean by "plagiarism"? There are many superficial similarities between concepts in Dianetics and Freudian concepts, but I think "plagiarism" is not the right word to use.

: however, it's entirely possible that between 1951 and : 1953, when ellison would have been between 17 and 19 : and already notorious in science-fiction fandom circles, : that he would have been at a gathering which included : hubbard and the other parties.

I agree. I don't think anyone disagrees. -- ############################################################ Charles Platt cp@panix.com